Sankar Narayananjee,You should read this forwarded email carefully. We must realize that it is impossible to change the primitive beliefs of bigoted persons. Such dogmatic fellows just won't agree to evolve into better human beings by accepting the social and economic reforms, which are based on justice and equality, and are free from the hereditary caste-based discrimination.With regards,Ashok T. Jaisinghani._________________----- Original Message -----From: ranjeet singhSent: 14 Dec 2009 4:05 AMSubject: {UnitedHinduFront} Do the Vedas stipulate casteless society? AnswertoShri Yogesh Saxena jee.
Maanya Bandhu Shri Yogesh Saxena jee,
In your article you have rightly said that Hinduism is based on the Vedas; but then you also made a totally fanciful, contentious, and a never heard and ludicrous assertion that they stipulate a casteless society, without giving any reasons or testimonies for your saying so.
How did you think that it would be accepted by any sensible and right thinking person, especially when the subject is of such a great import and potentialities to effectuate far-reaching and calamitous consequences for us, our Dharma and the nation?
If it was accepted even for the sake of an argument, would it not mean (and be tantamount to our acceding) that whatever we had believed and followed; whatever we had been taught by our fore-fathers, Acharyas, Rishis, Munis, Maha Purushas and Bhagavad Avataras as regards this; and whatever they had written, preached, asserted and also followed in their lives with regards to this was totally wrong, anti-Vedic and a complete antithesis of the Vedic teachings?
Would it also not mean that when Bhagawan Shri Krishna had said in the Bhagavad Gita that Chaturvarnas were created by Me (Chaatur-varnyam Mayaa Srshtam. 4:13) and, that He was the knower of the Vedas (Veda-vid-eva ch-aham. 5:15), He was only kidding and making sham and fraudulent claims with an intent to cheat and deceive?
Not only that, but would also mean that in our entire ancestry uptill now, and from among the great ancient Acharyas, Rishis and Munis, no one had ever studied them and, therefore, knew them; and also that the great Brahmanas who had been honoured with the titles of Dvi-Vedis, Tri-Vedis and Chatur-Vedis were nothing but sheer impostors who had bluffed the people; and our brother alone is the first and the only person who has studied them -- and, hence, knows them!
It is highly necessary therefore, Sir, that the claim may please be substantiated, properly proved and established by indisputable testimonies from the Vedas so that we could take a decision and, if needed, make appropriate amends in our knowledge, beliefs and practices.
In the meantime, we would beg to lay the following for your kind attention, appropriate Hindu-Scholar like comments and explanations.
(1) When the very name of our Dharma is Varnashram Dharma, and when there is a clear cut mention of Varnas and Jatis in the Vedas; how could it be averred and proclaimed with a certitude that they stipulate a casteless society?
(2) Also, when even our foes (Western Christian Scholars and Missionaries, who pined to see an eradication of Varna Vyavastha as it had proved to be our bulwark and their unsurmountable hindrance in converting us) had also accepted that it is present in the Vedas (Keith, as for example, has written on p. 92 of The Cambridge History of India that its presence in the Rigveda cannot be denied, and on p. 55, that it existed substantially in the period of Yajurveda); how did our brother make that assertion that it does not exist in the Vedas?
(3) In your post, dear Sir, you quoted a Shloka from Bhagavad Gita to substantiate a point. That proves that you accept it as an authority and Pramaana. We, therefore, will argue our paksha on its basis and ask:
a) Has Gita not talked of Chatur Varnas?
b) Has it not made a mention of Varna Sankaras, Jatis and Jati Dharmas?
c) Has Bhagawan Shri Krishna not said in it that: It is better to die performing ones own Dharma (Swadharma) than to live by that of another?
स्वधर्मे निधनं श्रेयः परधर्मो भयावहः। 3:35
d) Is a sincere and faithful performance of svadharma -- Dharma of ones Varna or Jati -- not the very heart, core and essence of its teachings and the discourse of Bhagwan Shri Krishna?
e) Has Shri Bhagawan not described in it the Dharmas of Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras in Verses 18:42-44?
f) Has He not said in it that devoted to the duties designated for ones Varna or Jati, a person achieves perfection?
स्वे स्वे कर्मण्यभिरतः संसिधिम् लभते नरः। 18:45
g) And, that this this performance of the designated duties, the earmarked karmas of ones Varna or Jati (sva-dharmas), is His Pooja, His very worship, which leads a person to his samsiddhi?
स्वकर्मणः तमभ्यर्च्य सिधिम् विन्दति मानवः। 18:46
h) May we also know, what are Sahajam-Karmas, which, according to Bhagawan Shri Krishna, even if it has faults (and does not appear to be good) should NOT be abandoned?
सहजं कर्म कौन्तेय सदोषमपि न त्यजेत्। 18:48
i) Are they not which came to us along with our birth -- that is, which were received by us with our birth (Sah = with, Jam = birth; sahjam = with birth) -- and are, therefore, the karmas, the duties, the dharmas (Svadharmas) of ours as per our Varna or Jati of birth?
If all the above ARE true, and Gita DOES say all that is enumerated above; how could it be postulated or advocated by anyone -- and we could be expected to agree -- that the Vedas stipulate a casteless society?
Should one argue, it is as per Gita, not the Vedas; we would ask:
<!--[if !supportLists]-->i) <!--[endif]-->Is Gita not a part of Prasthaan-Trayee?
<!--[if !supportLists]-->ii) <!--[endif]-->Is it not also called -- and known as -- Geetopnishad?
<!--[if !supportLists]-->iii) <!--[endif]-->Do the ending Pushpikas of all its chapters not bear the words: Geetaasu Upanishatsu?
<!--[if !supportLists]-->iv) <!--[endif]-->Has it not been described as the milk of the Upanishadic cow?
सर्वोपनिषदो गावो दोग्धा गोपाल नन्दनः। पार्थो वत्सः सुधीर्भोक्ता दुग्धं गीतामृतं महत् ।।
<!--[if !supportLists]-->v) <!--[endif]-->Are Upanishads not a part of the Vedas?
<!--[if !supportLists]-->vi) <!--[endif]-->And, has it not emanated directly from the Shri Mukh of Bhagawan Himself?
<!--[if !supportLists]-->vii) <!--[endif]-->If all the above are true; how can it be argued then that it is not equal to the Vedas or is not acceptable as an equal authority?
Last but not the least, we would most respectfully and humbly request that we should never, never, utter any remark which even obliquely goes against or refutes the teachings of our Scriptures, or casts any doubts about the basics, principles and tenets of our Dharma as enshrined in them. Statements of the like of the above which are pregnant with perilous potentialities to hit, harm, ravage and demolish them should be scrupulously, watchfully and guardfully avoided and desisted.
Varnashram Vyavastha, Dear Sir, is the very basis, the very aadhaar and aadhaar-shilaa of our Dharma on which its entire edifice stands and is built upon. All our Dharmas, all our Dharmic practices are based on it, they ensue from it and revolve around it. If this is rejected, removed or nullified, what would remain of it then; what shall be left for us to follow, practice and perform then save what are Saamaanya Dharmas, and are found in religions as well? What Vaishishtya shall remain of it then distinguishing it from them?
Shall this not be a harbinger, a fore-runner of our sad end, our very doom and a complete extinction and extermination of Sanatan Dharma?
Thanking you,
With kind regards,
And hoping to receive corroborating Veda Pramaanas that prove that they stipulate a casteless society,
Dr. Ranjeet Singh.
--
Palash Biswas
Pl Read:
http://nandigramunited-banga.blogspot.com/
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